HAPPY HOMESTUCK DAY
This week: Tyrion VIII, Catelyn X, Daenerys VIII
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1.) Cat and Dany both do negotiations with men of much more power than them in these chapters! How are their methods similar or different, and does this reflect more on them or the societies they're living in?
2.) does walder frey have the most potent nut of all time or does he just fuck a lot?
3.) Are there parallels between Jon and Sam as people?
4.) Do you think Danaerys is making a mistake by trying to help a single person? Is it even possible for her to do more?
5.) Who's more likely to die soon, Walder Frey or Henry Kissinger?
6.) Why do you think jon is so upset when given the sword?
7.) IS love the death of duty?
March 30-April 5
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1.) The nobles get a little mad about appointing a woman to the high counsel, extremely mad about making a common man a lord, and think it's very funny when Barristan gets fired. What does this say about #society?
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1.) Has your opinion or understanding of Drogo changed at all now that he can better communicate with the audience?
2.) What do Robb and Catelyn's different reactions to Sansa's letter say about each of them?
3.) Robb says Rickon can't be baby forever. Do you agree?
4.) Osha says Robb is marching the wrong way. Did Robb make a huge mistake? Would it even have been possible for him to go north given the circumstances?
5.) Bran says the Karstarks are nothing like the Starks because they're so big, Stark short kings (in the North) confirmed?
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1.) What future chapters are y'all looking forward to the most?
2.) What does the difference between Arya and Sansa's ways of #coping tell us about their two characters?
3.) Littlefinger death 1000 years?
4.) So... Benjen is alive, right?
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1.) "Eddard Stark allowed himself a curse" - what swear word do you think he says here?
2.) Sansa’s chapter has her wishing Loras was sent out to kill Gregor even though she already saw the Loras v. Gregor showdown and notably that it went very badly for Loras. Why do you think/what does it say that she still thinks he would take down Gregor?
3.) There’s also Class Stuff with Sansa and Arya in Sansa III: what’s the significance / purpose of the immediate contrast between how they each view their non - class matched friendships (Mycah and Jeyne) ?
4.) At the end of Daenerys V, After Viserys threatens to kill her and cut out her child, she switches in her mind to calling Viserys “the man who used to be her brother” and Drogo “the sun of her life”. What does this indicate about the shift in Dany’s perception of each/the dynamic between them in her mind?
5.) Was Renly right to tell Ned to strike before Robert died?
6.) Who, Ultimately, was responsible for killing Robert? (And why is it actually the absurd system of feudal governance / absolute monarchy + the hypermasculinity valued by this system which united to create this situation)
7.) Following Boargate, to what extent is Robert's former image/valor restored or reinforced in the eyes of characters such as Ned or Renly?
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1.) Do you feel that George's portrayal of Lysa is realistic?
2.) Who goes to more jail, Robert or Tyrion?
3.) Do you think Lysa actually thinks Tyrion killed Jon Arryn, or is she just pulling a Cersei and saying "we HAVE a lion?"
February 24-March 1
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1.) How many years jail for Littlefinger?
2.) Does learning about the regular treatment of bastards in the south, from Robert’s apathy to Cersei’s violence, change your opinion at all of Catelyn’s relationship to Jon?
3.) There’s interesting juxtaposition between Robert Arryn’s titles “lord of the Eyrie, true warden of the east”- with the description of how young delicate and frail he looks. Can this be seen as a societal commentary? What does it Say?
4.) We know Robert dreams about killing Rhaegar every night. But here Ned thinks about Rhaegar “for the first time in years”. What does this contrast say about how Robert and Ned have dealt with/continue to be impacted by their trauma?
5.) Is Catelyn’s fatphobia re: Lysa supposed to read as Catelyn not questioning / internalizing societal standards of beauty and womanhood or am I giving George too much credit?
6.) Do you think Robert really has changed for the worse, or did power simply reveal his true nature/Ned had an idealized version of him before?
7.) Catelyn says Brynden “of all people” should understand Lysa not wanting to marry for political reasons. Does this mean he’s gay? Did he leave Riverrun to escape noble pressures of marriage and heterosexuality? Discuss.
8.) We see Catelyn think about how Lysa treats Robert way differently than she treats Rickon. What about the comparison of Lysa and Robert / Cersei and Joffrey?
9.) Catelyn says “a woman can rule as wisely as a man” when talking to Brynden Blackfish. Do you think shes speaking from experience as Ned’s wife having to rule in his absence? Do you think she has historical heroes - queens and women she admires and emulates - like Jon and Ned do? F&B + WOIAF readers feel free to speculate wildly.
Ned felt half-poisoned himself. “The squire,” he said. “Ser Hugh.” Wheels within wheels within wheels. Ned’s gears were turning just thinking about it.
1.) In this first Ned chapter, Ned really goes off being very direct and sincere with Robert. What do you think this tells you about their relationship, especially pre-rebellion? Do you think Ned is right to act like this or should he treat him differently now that he Detroit: Became King?
2.) Varys talks about what would happen if he was to be beheaded. Do you think mermen can be beheaded? Would water spill out instead of blood? Or would he crack like an egg?
3.) If you're reading for the first time, who do you think could have killed Jon Arryn? If you're re-reading or already know the answer, how well do you think the mystery is set up at this point?
4.) How much did you enjoy it when Tyrion got punk'd by Catelyn?
5.) Tyrion IV introduces the character of Chiggen. If he came up with a sandwich named "The McChiggen", what do you think it would be like and would you eat it?
6.) Lamprey Pie: would you eat it?
7.) Would Robert actually murder Ned or is he just mad and drunk (or both)?
8.) How do you feel about Ser Loras, and how he is viewed differently by Ned and Sansa?
9.) A fight scene is more than just a clash; what does the fight in Tyrion IV show about it's participants?
10.) Varys and Littlefinger both seem to be trying to gain Ned's trust, and telling Ned that the other can't be trusted. Do you think either of them are telling the truth? Does Ned?
11.) Ned doesn't recognize Varys when he isn't dressed in his silks, and Tommen and Myrcella don't recognize Arya chasing the cat. Is this a Theme?
12.) Do you think Arya hearing the conversation in the tunnels is effective storytelling?
13.) Tyrion saves Cat from the mountain men. Is this self-preservation or does he do it for moral reasons?
14.) Is it ethical to kill a pregante 14 year old, or should Robert die?
Click the "Forms" button at the top of the page to submit a discussion question!
[Catelyn] did not know what was more satisfying: the sound of a dozen brains expanding at once or the look on Tyrion Lannister's face.
1.) Ser Rodrik complains that he gets so wet that even his boans are soaked. When’s the last time you got that doused?
2.) How would you interpret the relationship between the characters and the climate around them? Eg. Jon and Sam with the cold, Ned with the heat, Cat with the rains, etc.?
3.) Do you agree with Sansa that Joffery is not to blame for Lady's death?
4.) As a tribute of everyone's favorite podcast segment "Warg of the Week", which Varys characteristics could you pick that would confirm Merling Varys? He didn't appear in these chapters but I just remembered that.
5.) Is Septa Mordane cancelled? Yes or yes?
6.) For the as of yet non Stannis-pilled PGOT book club members... What is your handle on this "Stannis" character so far?
Currently reading: A Game of Thrones
On deck (May 11, 2020): A Clash of Kings
|Mar. 23||Bran VI, Daenerys VI, Catelyn VIII|
|Mar. 30||Tyrion VII, Sansa V, Eddard XV|
|Apr. 6||Catelyn IX, Jon VIII, Daenerys VII|
|Apr. 13||Tyrion VIII, Catelyn X, Daenerys VIII|
|Apr. 20||Arya V, Bran VII, Sansa VI|
|Apr. 27||Daenerys IX, Tyrion IX, Jon IX|
|May 4||Catelyn XI, Daenerys X, recap/reflection?|
|May 11||Prologue, Arya I, Sansa I|
|May 18||Tyrion I, Bran I, Arya II|
|May 25||Jon I, Catelyn I, Tyrion II|
|June 1||Arya III, Davos I, Theon I|
|June 8||Daenerys I, Jon II, Arya IV|
|June 15||Tyrion III, Bran II, Tyrion IV|
|June 22||Sansa II, Arya V, Tyrion V|
|June 29||Bran III, Catelyn II, Jon III|
|July 6||Theon II, Tyrion IV, Arya VI|
|July 13||Daenerys II, Bran IV, Tyrion VII|
|July 20||Arya VII, Catelyn III, Sansa III|
|July 27||Catelyn IV, Jon IV, Bran V|
|August 3||Tyrion VIII, Theon III, Arya VIII|
|August 10||Catelyn V, Daenerys III, Tyrion IX|
|August 17||Davos II, Jon V, Tyrion X|
|August 24||Catelyn VI, Bran VI, Arya IX|
|August 31||Daenerys IV, Tyrion XI, Theon IV|
|September 1||Jon VI, Tyrion XII, Catelyn VII|
|September 8||Theon V, Sansa V, Davos III|
|September 15||Tyrion XIII, Sansa VI, Tyrion XIV|
|September 22||Sansa VII, Daenerys V, Arya X|
|September 29||Sansa VIII, Theon VI, Tyrion XV|
|October 5||Jon VIII, Bran VII, recap/reflection?|
The Postgame of Thrones Discord has started a book club! We are reading a few chapters a week and discussing as we go along. We're trying to keep things mostly spoiler-free for our first-time readers, though there are no specific rules set up yet as to what constitutes spoilers (considering the HBO show as well as the PGoT podcast contain major spoilers throughout). Please use your best judgment these first few weeks, and read the FAQ for a more thorough rundown of the few established guidelines!
Elliott "The Tormentor" Valentine is the organizer of the club... all that really means is that I made a couple of Google Docs, as well as this site. I suppose I'm the person to contact with any questions! (I have very limited modding powers in the #pgot-book-club channel only. If you're having a problem with someone in the PGoT server, please contact one of the actual mods.)
How do I join?
Head on over to the PGoT Discord- that's it! To get notified of discussion times, possible schedule changes, and miscellaneous announcements, check the pinned tweets in the #pgot-book-club server!
Can I join at any time?
Certainly! First-time readers, please be aware that if you join midway through a book, we will be discussing previous chapters and there will be spoilers!
Where can I get the books?
Why, from your local bookstore, of course! Don't go to the #pgot-book-club channel and click the pinned tweets! There is definitely not a tested link to get the series for free as e-books. So don't go poking around in there!
I really want to discuss something that doesn't happen for a couple more books!
Please use your best judgment in the #pgot-book-club server. A short comment along the lines of "Wow, I never noticed this line in Ned I really sets up the reveal of ||SOME BIG MOMENT IN LIKE A FEAST FOR CROWS OR SOMETHING||" is fine (spoiler tags required!!), but if you start to get into a longer discussion about it with someone, consider moving over to the #good-book-spoilers channel.
Total points as of February 9, 2020
|Eddard "Ned" Stark||2||0||5||-1||0||4|
1st place votes, worth two points
2nd place votes, worth one point
Point removed from a current vote in order to activate Uncle Removal Points
Point removed for Un-Uncle-Like activities
Click the "Forms" button at the top of the page to cast your votes!
February 3 - 9
“Boy, girl,” Syrio Forel said. “You are a brain, that is all.” He clicked his teeth together. ‘Just so, that is the grip. You are not holding a battle-axe, you are holding a—”
“—book,” Arya finished for him, fiercely.
“Just so. Now we will begin the dance.”
In Tyrion III, the old bear said he shouldn't have sent Waymar Royce to the ranging. Having read the prologue, do you think a less green man would have survived all that?
Do you think there's anyone that Tyrion could take the wall's plight to that would actually help them?
Having reached Syrio, on what culture do you think George based the people from Braavos?
Do you think iced milk is like shaved ice, a milkshake, or just milk with some ice cubes and honey in it? Or something else?
Of the metaphorical dreams that have shown up, which do you think was most interesting in how it represented the character having it?
When Ned tells Arya how much she reminds him of Lyanna and about how she wanted to carry a sword, and then he chooses to let Arya practice/ learn- what do you think that says about Ned?
When Arya notes how unusual it is for Ned to talk about his dead family.... is this a symptom of Ned's trauma? How does it challenge or corroborate how you feel about his character?
Ned describes Lyanna as willful in a way that connects said willfulness to her premature death- what do you think makes him decide Arya should be given an opportunity she didn’t have? What’s going through his head? Does he seem scared/ worried for Arya?
Both Jon and Arya are thrown into situations where they suddenly realize society is stratified - what does it mean that Arya’s is much harsher and more violent? Is it important or just a function of their respective plot lines?
Is it significant/ what does it mean that both Sansa and Arya have “lost” their wolves by this point? How does the “loss” of each wolf reflect the experiences of them up to this point/ predict future turmoil?
Both Bran in this chapter and Cat in her last one think about Robb trying hard to “play adult” - how do they view this change differently? How does Bran noticing it make you feel vs. Cat?
Does Bran losing the ability to pursue his “dream” i.e. knighthood seem like a meaningful parallel to Sansa realizing the inherent contradiction in hers (her idealized view of the monarchy & its inherent noble traditions is proven wrong by Joffrey, etc.)? Or is it a function of story structure that all the Stark kids are having their world views and preconceived notions of the world challenged around the same time?
"Robb looked shaken. 'The wolves... I don't know why they did that...'" The wolves attacked Tyrion. Why did they do that? Do we know or have any ideas?
Alliser Thorne gets owned again this week, and everyone loves to see it. Jon also says that he sucks at training the new recruits, yet Jeor tells Tyrion that they have to let him train because he's a knight. Does this seem like the right choice?
Say to me now your favorite puppy moment in these chapters!
A question that can be asked many times: GRRM often uses food to help establish a setting and mood. Have any food descriptions been particularly striking to you lately?
Somebody at Winterfell decided the best way to manage Bran's disability is to make another disabled person carry him around. Does this mean anything?
How does Pycelle seem at this point? How about Littlefinger? When you first read this chapter do you remember who you thought could be trusted?
How does King's Landing contrast with the North?
What does it mean that we haven't seen Robert since we got to King's Landing?
When Jorah refuses to obey Viserys do we, under these circumstances, gotta hand it to him?
January 27 - February 2
Alliser Thorne overheard him. “Lord Snow wants to take my place now.” He sneered. “I’d have an easier time teaching a wolf to read than you will training this aurochs.”
“I’ll take that wager, Ser Alliser,” Jon said. “I’d love to see Ghost read.”
Eddard IV ends with Ned saying that he hopes the king is the man he thinks he is and not the man he fears he has become. Based on what we've seen so far, which man do you think Robert is?
Jon learns about classism and privilege this chapter. Is he Marxist now? Discuss. Comrade Donal Noye
What do you make of the small council? What does Ned's chapter tell us about the politics of King's Landing?
What POV have you enjoyed the most so far, and why? For re-readers, are you liking or disliking different POVs this time around?
Jon III at least speaks to the beginning of an analysis of inequality/classism/privilege etc. Do you think this is only/mostly in service of Jon's character or does Class Consciousness in some form or another constitute a major running theme despite the “nobility” of our protagonists?
January 20 - 26
“Good man!” The king clapped him on the shoulder. “I’ve half a mind to leave them all behind and just keep going.”
A smile touched Ned’s lips. “I do believe you mean it.”
“I do, I do,” the king said. “What do you say, Ned? Just you and me, two vagabond knights on the kingsroad, our swords at our sides and the gods know what in front of us, and maybe a Cerebral Sunday to warm our brains tonight.”
What if instead of the racism, the Dothraki wedding had all the Dothraki doing Orange Justice, thanks.
We get our first Sansa chapter, after seeing her from a couple of different outside perspectives. Does her POV help us understand her better, and does it seem like her perspective is meant to be sympathetic?
How does dany II re-figure the relationship between dany and viserys? Does Viserys feel truly threatened by Dany having more "official" power than him, or is he just annoyed about it?
How long should jorah go to prison for?
GRRM’s dothraki are Very racist. How would you change dany II (or maybe build upon things in later chapters) to give the dothraki culture and the Dothraki themselves depth and character so they dont just seem cobbled together from racist stereotypes?
Ned wants Robert to kiss him. Is nedbert real? Discuss
Hey funny how we got a lot of Sansa's character by the eyes of Arya and of Arya's by the eyes of Sansa. Do you think this means anything? Also, Would you like to have had those chapters reversed? Like Arya watching Mycah being threatened, etc.
By Sansa I, we've had one of each POV we're going to have in the book. Which other character would you have liked to have a POV in AGOT?
if snarks and grumkins were pokemon, which pokemon would they be
Do you think Tyrion is as downtrodden as he thinks or does he have a victim complex?
January 13 - 19
"Can't you guess?" Jon teased. "Your very favorite thing."
Arya seemed puzzled at first. Then it came to her. She was that quick. They said it together:
Tyrion hit the woah and we already discussed which fortnite dance Theon should've done after kicking away gareds head. What stunts/ signature moves should other characters have done for their introduction?
How much of the fandoms Sansa hate stems from Aryas first chapter? Was it a good idea to introduce her from this POV?
In this section we get both Catelyn and Arya as women POVs but they approach the societal role of women from different ways- does Arya’s POV make you view Catelyn’s interactions w/ her children and Ned as circumscribed by society in a different light?
Do you think it’s fair to compare Jon and Arya’s positions, as she herself does? Are they similarly disenfranchised/ what societal privileges might allow each to notice things the other doesn’t?
Lots of foreshadowing in these ones folks! What’s your favorite deeply ominous line from this set of chapters? [careful about spoilers on this one, re-readers! -EE]
We hear Jon and Arya speak on the reasoning behind the naming of their direwolves, and Bran explains a bit about the rest of the wolf pack's names too. Do the names they picked give any deeper insight into the characters (beyond just "Sansa likes fancy ladies" etc)?
Does it Mean Anything that Bran hasn't been able to figure out a name for his wolf?
What do we learn about Jon from his interactions with the different Starks? What do you think would have happened if he hadn't joined the Night Watch?
The parallels between Catelyn and Ned's argument in Catelyn I and that of Cersei and Jaime in Bran II are pretty stacked - you've got two very powerful and very naked people arguing after sex about the rift driven between them by Lyanna Stark. I have a small brain so there are probably more parallels that I did not see. For new readers, how does this bode? I know we're very very early on but I'm curious as to what kind of guesses you might have to how those two relationships will bear out over the course of the books. For rereaders, do you have any moments from later on that are similarly paralleled between these Starks and Lannisters?
what can we learn about the stark kids’ characters from their relationships with their Buppys?
Instead of the direwolves, what if each Stark kid had a Pokemon buddy? Which Pokemon, based on only the current characterization, do you feel would best suit each kiddo? Maybe I'll ask this again later and see how the answers change throughout the series!! makesuthink
is Tyrion currently epic?
How do you feel about the names the Stark kids picked for their direwolves, both in terms of how the name reflects the kid and as a good pet name?
tell me now the name of your favorite chapter so far and why
January 6 - 12
"Can a man still be brave if he’s working out at the library?"
"That is the only time a man can be brave," his father told him.
What are your thoughts on hot white walkers?
What are your thoughts on the cultural differences between the different groups encountered in these chapters? (common folk vs. nobles, northern westerosi vs. southern westerosi, targaryens vs. essites)
Why do you think these chapters are ordered the way they are? Or what did you think of having one chapter take place in Essos?
daenerys mentioned that khal drogo's braid went past his ass. question: do he got cake?
In these chapters we get a ton of world building in a relatively brief period, but (in my opinion) it never feels heavy handed or too overwhelming, since we're slowly revealed different things about the world from several perspectives. If you haven't read the series before, is there any aspect about the world that confuses you or was too overwhelming? What aspect of the world (geography, history, religions, etc.) are you looking forward to learning more about?
If you have read the series before: Knowing what you already know (without spoilers of course) are there any lines of worldbuilding that stood out as particularly adept or well crafted? The first one that comes to my mind is "It was the ninth year of summer, and the seventh of Bran's life." So much work done in one line! We love it George!!
how would you best insert stannis into these chapters. who in these chapters is most likely to ask "where's stannis." do you think stannis is a capricorn
in GOT: Brotherhood will Theon do a Fortnite dance after kicking the guy's head
How do you think danys position as an outsider to westeros and her heritage effects her judgment compared to viserys